Wednesday, July 15, 2015

What's the "Big Idea"?


Even though The Things They Carried is set during the Vietnam War, in what ways is it relevant today, with regard to war and politics as well as our personal struggles? 

As you read the novel, which parts did you connect/relate to best in terms of the struggles, character relationships, or in other ways?

What did you gain from reading this novel? What would you say is the "Big Idea" (or universal lesson) of this novel that will stick with you after reading it? After everyone posts their big ideas, be sure to vote on the best one and we'll have a contest called the BEST BIG IDEA BLOG CONTEST. You will receive a fabulous prize when the 2015 school year commences (think less trophy and more pack of gum to avoid disappointment). Good luck--may the best blogger win!

P.S. Any big ideas from Sparknotes, etc. are disqualified; all big ideas must be the property of your brain.

38 comments:

  1. I think that this book is very relevant today because of the big idea that storytelling does not have to be based only on fact, but that it can also be altered by the storyteller to convey emotions. This idea is brought up constantly by Tim O'Brien as he tells not only the stories of others but his own stories as well. Tales of the war often seem improbable or exaggerated or impossible in the novel. For example, the story of the soldiers who heard the music in the forest seems false on many levels. The storyteller was not there when it happened so O'Brien heard a version of the story that was probably altered to better the conveyance of the storytellers emotions. The emphasis on conveying emotions being more important then the truth is in my opinion why this novel is still relevant today. It teaches the readers that stories are often changed from truth to get the wanted reaction from the listener. In other words, it teaches us to think critically of information and to understand that the purpose of many stories is to influence or get a reaction.

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    1. I agree with this statement and how this book is still relevant today. Today stories can be told from virtually anywhere (News, magazines, internet, etc.) and people will tend to believe the first thing they hear. You often get this in the form of tabloids sold on every magazine stand in a country. Most of the people reporting have little fact to back up their claims or accusations, but a few photos and some computer tools can make anything look real. The most recent event of "storytelling" in the media came from former NBC anchor Brian Williams. Mr. Williams had developed a reputation as a well trusted and well known reporter for one of the more popular nighttime programs in the US. It was discovered over the summer that Mr. Williams lied about various stories including one during Hurricane Katrina where he said "I could see bodies floating in the water." This statement was found to be very far fetched, more notably he also said during a helicopter flight in Iraq that they experienced enemy fire while on the trip. He claimed that his pilot was injured during the ordeal and received a Purple Heart, the only probably was the pilot claimed the trip to be "Rather uneventful." I feel like a lot of todays media is story telling instead of actual facts, for this reason I do see relevance for The Things They Carried in todays world.

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  2. I think the book is still relevant today not because it shows what the Vietnam war was like, but it shows how the Vietnam war affected the people who participated. This book shows us that even though decades later people are still mentally and physically scarred. This book is relevant to today's society because people understand that war is terrible, but they don't understand that sometimes coming back home is worse. I think the big idea of this book is it's okay to remember and it's okay to hurt. These two things although weird are very true. People often tell you to forget the past and move on with your life, this book shows how hard it is to move on and forget. This book tells me that it's okay to reminisce in the past, to wallow in the pain, and to care about something that others have forgotten. This book also shows that its okay to hurt. It is okay to feel pain and sometimes the pain never goes away. We have been told that nobody can hurt you without your permission, this book says that it's okay to sometimes let things hurt. That's how we know we are alive is when we hurt and when we feel.

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    1. I agree with Rachel. I can't image what soldiers see when they are away at war. When O'Brien takes his daughter Kathleen to the field where Kiowa died, he says, "In a way, I'd gone under with Kiowa, and now after two decades I'd mostly worked my way out." This shows how hurt O'Brien was when Kiowa died and that it has taken him a while to move past it. I think the author also wants you to see that the past makes you who you are. All the hurting and pain people experience makes them strong and the person that they are today.

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  3. In my opinion, "The Things They Carried" has substantial relevancy to present time. As far as war and politics go, some people have to pay and show support for a war they do not believe their country should be fighting. Also, personal struggles exist in every person. O'Brien, as well as Cross and Bowker, had internal struggles that much of humanity can relate to. O'Brien faced the deaths of many people he held dear to his heart, held grudges against those he needed to learn to forgive, and fled from responsibility; Cross battled unrequited love; and Bowker dealt with leaving a friend behind. Personally, I felt that I could best relate to Norman Bowker and how I can receive many things (his 7 medals), yet only care about the one thing I didn't get (Silver Star) and the reasons why I didn't.
    By reading this novel, I gained perspective. I am now able to see the consequences of holding onto things when letting go is best. This was shown by O'Brien's bitter animosity towards Bobby Jorgenson. Jorgenson messed up, but he was willing to learn from it, own up to it, and take accountability for his actions. O'Brien could only see the mistake, but he learned with time that revenge is not the best answer. I am also learning that people are imperfect and fallible, just as O'Brien did.
    One big idea from this novel is guilt. O'Brien felt immensely guilty about the man he killed. Jimmy felt terrible for setting up in the sewage field because where Kiowa died. In addition, Bowker felt guilty for not fighting harder to keep Kiowa alive. However, these men felt guilt because of things they were not entirely responsible for. Guilt makes a person blame themselves (and others) for things that are out of anyone's control. I believe that this played a major role throughout the novel.

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  4. This story is still relevant today because it includes quite a few timeless life lessons, like appreciation and love and friendship. I think the person I connected most with was Lieutenant Cross because his actions would be a lot like mine if I were in his position. When Kiowa died, he went back and searched until he found his body so he could get sent back home. It was also mentioned that Cross went against his training to think of his soldiers as pawns rather than people. He went against the norm and actually cared about the people under his command and would see to it that they went back home, dead or alive, because that was the collective goal amongst them all; getting home.

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    1. Yes, the story is still relevant today. But the way I perceived the novel was not as a book connecting people to each other, but as connecting someone to themselves. All the things they carried were for themselves, because of what they valued from their lives. Whether it be a pebble, New Testament, or a letter, they did not carry these things for anyone but themselves. The weight of the things they carried could be defined physically, pound for pound and ounce for ounce. But more in the ways of emotional burden, which can not ever be measured. They rely on each other, to have each other's backs. But I feel like they had to rely on themselves after the war, to carry on through the rest of life.

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    2. I completely agree with your analysis of the novel. Reading this made me think of what I would do put in these situations. I never thought of the other characters being my friends or who I would do something for I always thought of myself and how I would react. It makes sense that in war the person you have to rely on the most is yourself. You cant always be waiting for the other guy to bail you out, or leave the problem for someone else. In a war you would never know if there will be anyone else to take care of it, or you. A soldier must rely on himself/herself to be ready for any situation because when it's all said and done, you are the only one who experienced the events of a war in any particular way. No one else shares the same exact feelings or reactions as you would. So this leaves you to rely on yourself to hold it together and be strong not only for yourself but for the other people who rely on you. So in a way I guess that a theme for this novel could be self trust. Just kind of guessing though.

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  5. "The Things They Carried" I believe has lessons that will hold true to every modern day political and personal struggle. The blind patriotism to join a war with no prior knowledge to, learning to move past things to move forward, seeing a reason to fight for what a person believes in. The person I could most relate with is Bowker(not the suicidal standpoint) because even if the body of his friend was dead he still didn't forgive himself for it. As I would never forgive myself for letting someone go, there is certain situations that sometimes one persons actions wont change anything physically substantial but mentally and emotionally changes the world.
    I think the "big idea" of this novel is to just listen, also listening to the people who don't talk, and even listening to the ones who aren't around. The morals we believe in are the ones that we listen to, whether it be from a book like the bible, or a novel written by a veteran of war. We gain morals from knowledge, and gain knowledge from others. Without others we our just ourselves, I believe that sometimes the "big ideas" of most things is to hear it from others so we can learn and be better with every step we take in life.

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  6. I believe that the "big idea" of The Things They Carried is that humans need connection to survive. Each soldier carried items that connected them to someone at home. These items, no matter how trivial, brought comfort to the soldiers as they marched through Vietnam, unsure of what was to come. The items connected them to the hope of a coming home to someone to build a life with after the horrors they witnessed.

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  7. While reading The Things They Carried, I connected/paid a lot of attention to how the characters dealt with the pain of their situation. It was interesting to see all the ways they endured and/or avoided their pain to get themselves through the war. One of the most common and often used ways to mentally survive the war was to separate the horror from the soldier by using code words, or simply ignoring them and changing the truth into something different, as seen when the soldiers greet a dead old man and toast to his ancestors and many grandchildren as though he were alive.
    The novel is still relevant today because it demonstrates war and its effects through the stories of a war that is still relatively modern. It also addresses the problems associated with the drafts and political ignorance -watching tv/the news but flipping the channels at the mention of a body count, failing to take a stance for what one believes is right after being educated on both sides- which are problems that don't seem as though they'll be gone soon.
    The main idea of The Things They Carried is that to survive, people separate themselves from evils and tragedies with smaller evils: lies and harsh words that dehumanize and disrespect. To maintain a semblance of composure, it became incredibly common for soldiers to joke about the deaths of their own comrades.

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  10. The big idea of this novel was the idea that all soldiers experience something in their time of war. It sounds bland, but if you take a closer look you can tell. For example, Cross is going through this mental battle between love and war. He's lost in thought about this woman back at home named Martha. He can't stop thinking about her, and he reads her letters that he has held onto in his backpack everyday. While on the otherhand he's in the midst of the Vietnam War. When this becomes a reality to him, it's too late. Another solider already died under his responsibility. He burns the letters and pictures of Martha, and tries to forget. That's Cross' experience, but there are many more. All soldiers go through something like this, and it can be especially hard on them when they're suffering mental troubles like PTSD.

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  11. The big idea of this novel was the idea that all soldiers experience something in their time of war. It sounds bland, but if you take a closer look you can tell. For example, Cross is going through this mental battle between love and war. He's lost in thought about this woman back at home named Martha. He can't stop thinking about her, and he reads her letters that he has held onto in his backpack everyday. While on the otherhand he's in the midst of the Vietnam War. When this becomes a reality to him, it's too late. Another solider already died under his responsibility. He burns the letters and pictures of Martha, and tries to forget. That's Cross' experience, but there are many more. All soldiers go through something like this, and it can be especially hard on them when they're suffering mental troubles like PTSD.

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  12. The big idea of this novel was the idea that all soldiers experience something in their time of war. It sounds bland, but if you take a closer look you can tell. For example, Cross is going through this mental battle between love and war. He's lost in thought about this woman back at home named Martha. He can't stop thinking about her, and he reads her letters that he has held onto in his backpack everyday. While on the otherhand he's in the midst of the Vietnam War. When this becomes a reality to him, it's too late. Another solider already died under his responsibility. He burns the letters and pictures of Martha, and tries to forget. That's Cross' experience, but there are many more. All soldiers go through something like this, and it can be especially hard on them when they're suffering mental troubles like PTSD.

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  13. In the book there is many struggles and relationships but I think the one that I connected with the most is the bond between Kiowa and Tim O'Brien. Kiowa and Tim just had a great friendship right from the beginning of the book, and when O'Brien writes about the death of Kiowa it just made my heart sink thinking about if I lost a friend like him to something that wasn't even war related. Also, the relationship between Elroy and O'Brien stuck with me. I just think it was so cool how Elroy barely said a word to O'Brien and he changed his life. The whole struggle with Tim before the war really hit me too, because I feel that I could never just go into war and risk my life if I had my whole future planned out.
    I feel that the 'Big Idea' of this story is friendship. I feel the story shows how even during terrible times, you can rely on the people around you to be there for you. In the story, Tim O'Brien goes into war thinking it's a horrible thing, and comes out with friends that will last a lifetime. I just think that this goes to show how much we all can go through with someone there by our side.

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  14. I think in the book "The Things They Carried" the "big idea" is everyone has feelings.The men that went into war all brought something with them from their past and home. No matter what the men were going to go through in this war they all had different emotions and feelings. Whether it's love, anger, happiness, or sadness they were all feeling something and trying to get through it on their own. That's why i think they all carried something with them to tie them back to home to make them feel safe because underneath all the padding and guns were in my opinion some scared men. they never knew what was going to happen.

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  15. This novel will always be relevant for the simple reason that young men and women will always be the part of society that will enlist in future and present wars. Their reasons will be different whether it is for their patriotism and love of their country or the chance to gain education through the service or even to escape the disaster of their lives but regardless of what their motivation was, it will always be young people who will fight the government's battles. The personal struggles will be understood as well because nearly everyone has had to deal with the loss of someone in their life. Tim O'Brien loses Kiowa who was one of his great friends from the beginning of the novel and everyone can relate to his struggle to keep his emotions in control and continue on throughout the war without him.

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  16. In the novel "The Things They Carried", the book is set in the Vietnam era. People might assume that a war book could never be relevant to today, but the novel is still relevant today. Yes the book is about a war, but the lesson that I learned while reading is to face whatever obstacle comes my way. When Tim went to Canada to try to escape the war reality, he met a man named Elroy who welcomed him without any question to the Tip Top Lodge. While he was there, Tim decided that the right thing to do would be to face the fact that he was going to be in Vietnam. "My conscience told me to run, but some irrational and powerful source was resisting, like a weight pushing me toward the war" (49). Facing obstacles and challenges will occur many times in a person's life. This is a valuable lesson everyone needs to learn because sometimes, giving up is not an option.

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  17. I think that the book is relevant to today because it shows how much of the soldiers had an emotional burden to carry. War is still happening all over the world today and many soldiers are left with PTSD and other struggles because of things that happened in the war. I think that the 'Big Idea' of the novel is that everyone goes through something that you don't know. While all the men went through the war together, they were all going though their own things in their mind.

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  18. I think that the book is relevant to today because it shows how much of the soldiers had an emotional burden to carry. War is still happening all over the world today and many soldiers are left with PTSD and other struggles because of things that happened in the war. I think that the 'Big Idea' of the novel is that everyone goes through something that you don't know. While all the men went through the war together, they were all going though their own things in their mind.

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  19. Many of the struggles the characters face in this book happen today and in most peoples lives even if you never go to war. The characters have to deal with guilt, courage, loss, and many other things that many people can relate to. Some parts I could relate to is when he talks about being afraid of something or when he talks about friendship. I think I gain some knowledge about war and what it's really like from this novel. The big idea is about how people have to face the difficulties and struggles that life throws at them but continuing on anyway.

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  20. Forgive me if I am repeating someone else's big idea, but trying to read through everyone's posts left my head spinning (hats off to you Mrs. Heartz for reading through them). The "big idea" in "The Things They Carried" was showing what humans can endure and live through. For example the buys coming into the war were just that, boys, but as soon as the circumstances fell that they needed to carry a fellow troop they became men. This idea can relate to anyone, not just those involved in war. Another situation that could bring out the best in a person would be in times of loss or strife. People can change in an instant depending on what is being asked of them and who is depending on it.

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  21. This novel is relevant to today in the way that young people will always fight the government's battles. All of their reasons will be different ranging from just having no other direction to take their lives, to getting an education, or to just simply being patriotic. Everyone will go through the same struggles of war such as losing a loved one. All of these men went through war together but went through their own personal, mental battles and came out with their own wounds and scars

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  22. The Things They Carried tells of a war where many stories originated from - tales of horror, mass homicide, respect, but almost never of patriotism. This war was started by a government known for it’s lies and trickery - started by a false cannon shot with a pre-made document, a tale with story-truths and happening-truths. The war still affects people today in popular culture, politics, and reputation of nations - if it weren’t for Vietnam, perhaps many things would be different today. At level of the soldiers fighting this war, however, it was a horrible experience that most have not dealt with before, and many could not cope with, all over one government disagreeing with another.
    One of the big ideas for this novel is that the world does not tell the truth, and one should accept that. Governments and people will often lie for many reasons, such as benefit, derision, and convenience. A theme touched upon near the end of the novel is that many stories are not “happening-true”, rather just “story-true” for the sake of context. The narrator even admits that “a long time ago I walked through Quang Ngai Province as a foot soldier. Almost everything else is invented,” throwing doubt on the validity of the stories told previously in the book. However, the stories are meant as a coping mechanism for O’Brien and others that tell stories, mentioning how “I [O’Brien] can look at things I never looked at... I can be brave. I can make myself feel again.” While not the truth, the lies he invents keeps the narrator sane and with perspective. Lies are to be expected and perhaps even counted on in this world.

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  25. I think that this story is relevant today. Often times during war, kids that just got out of high school end up getting drafted. Like in the story, even if you are against the war or feel that we shouldn't be a part of it, if you run you are a coward. We see that in our society during war times. Often the soldiers that are drafted don't even believe in the war like O'Brian. I believe one of the big themes in the story is that courage, and your version of what courage is, is what defines big events in your life. "Courage, I seemed to think, comes to us in finite quantities, like an inheritance, and by being frugal and stashing it away and letting it earn interest, we steadily increase our moral capital in preparation of the day when that account must be drawn down." those are words to live by, and i believe help represent my idea of the big idea of the book.

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  26. Even though the story was set about 50 years ago, the messages in the story are still relevant. It is true that story-truth is more real that the actual truth. Story truth tells not just what happened but also the way the event made the teller feel and conveys that feeling to the reader. It adds a level of personality to the story and emotion. However, I best related to the part in the story about Mary Ann Bell and how she changed so drastically from what Mark Fossie knew her to be back in the United States. This applies to normal life when people change to where you don't even know who they are anymore. This relates to the main idea of the book that people never really change on inside. Even when Tim looked back at his pictures of him as a kid, he still knew who he was because his soul remained the same even though he looked dramatically different and had been through so much. When people change, like Mary Ann, they may change their habits, attitude, appearance, or outlook but there is some part of them that remains the same throughout their entire lives - their soul.

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    1. Ben,

      I too can best relate to the part about Mary Ann Bell and how she changes. As you said, I believe that when people change they change their habits, attitude, and appearance, but on the inside they will always be the same. I think that story-truth adds this whole new attitude to the actual truth. Sometimes adding a little bit here and there adds more feeling and can convey the message to people easier than just straight up coming out with the truth. Also, I believe that just because a person changes doesn't mean you don't know them anymore. Yes the person has changed them self to the point that you do not know it is them anymore, however I think that we care more about the fact that they changed so much that we forget about the only thing that will never change, and that is their soul.

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  27. This story is very real and very relevant to the world around us today. Vietnam was a long time ago but it left wounds physically and mentally on many people. All wars do that to the people whether it's a physical war, a war between two people, or maybe even a war within. People don't usually factor in the hardships we all go through on a personal level even after the war is finished. These hardships can not be extinguished until all war is gone. Or until personally one makes peace with ones past, or they make them self believe they have. This is where the storytelling comes in the picture. Sometimes we have to relive things a different way just to stress how it felt to be in a certain spot. Like O'Brien trying to think of what to say to his young daughter 20 years after the war when she asks if he had ever killed anyone, in his head he is thinking, "I could say No of course not, or yes and both would be correct." This shows O'Brien's pain over the whole endeavor of war and how he never intended to hurt anyone so in his mind he is justifying his actions with how he feels. I think the 'Big Idea' of this story lies in that quote. You can go with the real truth or you can go with the emotions packed onto what really happened and either way each story is very true. It just depends on your own personal viewpoint.

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  28. I think a big idea in this novel is to explain the sheer power of stories, and how not only can they help people connect with certain emotions and experiences, but how they can also help people connect with the dead, and give people an idea of how the dead once lived and how they keep on living in our hearts and minds. Tim O' Brien demonstrates this big idea beautifully as he tells stories of how Ted Lavender gets on a helicopter and heads to Japan, then back home saying "The war's mellow", how Curt Lemon continues to go trick or treating almost stark naked, how Kiowa still walks around with a copy of the New Testament everyday, and how the man Tim killed still aspires for an education in Mathematics. One might say this should all be in past tense, but that's the thing about these stories; it's almost as if those people never died, as if they're still alive with their smiles, their laughs, their ambitions, everything! That is the beauty that I believe Tim O' Brien is trying to strike in people. That is why I think the big idea of "The Things They Carried" is that stories help us to connect with the dead and living not just on an emotional level, but even on a high spiritual level.

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    2. I just want to continue on something I could relate to in the story, which was Norman Bowker's struggle to find someone that he could even tell his story to. There are many times when he just simply wants to tell his story, but he can never find a person that will actually listen, and so he just juggles around the shit field story in his head, forever keeping it to himself. There are so many times when I think about the stories I've juggled around, the past mistakes I've made, the moments I'll never forgive, and I know a lot of other people think this too. I know people think "I should've been more competent. Why couldn't I just do ______." But they never actually talk about that experience, and it just keeps eating at them little by little, like a parasite who lives off of the pain of their past mistakes. Eventually, people just break. That's just the unfortunate ending to every secret story that demands to be told. That's just the unfortunate ending of Norman Bowker. FIN

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  29. This novel is relevant today due to the fact that people will still be enlisting today, tomorrow, and in the future; fighting all the current and future wars for America. These individuals have different reasons to enlist in the military. These include bad grades, true American, free education, or even to keep the family blood in the system. People often experience despair in war after losing a loved one. These men gave their blood, sweat, and tears for our country and fused as one core. They all come out together but each prime individual experiences their own sacrifices and challenges.

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  30. "The Things They Carried" is still relevant today because of what it says about experiences and who we become.
    Experiences are best relayed through story-truth because it makes the experience real for whoever is listening/reading/watching. Human's aren't just facts slapped together, we are intricate designs of emotions and true feeling. A writer can't always reach that level of truth by simply using story truth. I believe that's a lesson for every writer and reader to carry with them.
    My favorite lesson in "The Things They Carried" is that who we become is far from who we expect to grow into, whether it be because of the circumstances we come to deal with or whatever, but, eventually, we end up trying to get back to that child filled with wonder and save them. We're all trying to save that child inside ourselves.

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  31. I think the big idea of "The Things They Carried" was how any story can affect a person's perspective on life. The relevance in story-telling today is that no matter what kind of story it is it will live on forever even after the story-teller's death. Stories can have such a profound affect on the way an individual views the way they are living their life. The power that story-telling has on people leaves a lasting impression that never really fades away. What a person takes away from a story is the most important part of sitting down and listening to a story that was someone else's own experience, and grasping a moral lesson from that said story.In all, story-telling is just a memory coming to life as it tells of someone's experience through life.

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