Why has O'Brien never told this story before? Why does he decide to do so now?
Describe Elroy and analyze his influence on O'Brien and his ultimate decision. How does O'Brien reach his decision about whether or not to go to war? What role does shame/embarrassment/masculinity play in this decision?
What were your thoughts while reading this section? As always, feel free to respond to the above prompts or add your own ideas, questions, and interpretations. You may also respond to your classmates' posts, so we can have some interesting exchanges and debates.
I think that when O'Brien says he was a coward for going into the war, he means that he didn't want to face all the taunts, name-calling, and the feelings of disappointment towards him for not going into the war. He would rather go in and risk his life for a cause he doesn't agree with rather than stand up for himself and his life because he's scared of the shame. I don't agree that he would be a coward because why die for something that you don't believe in? Why risk it all just for a high regard from someone else? It doesn't seem worth it. O'Brien hasn't told this story before because looking back on it makes him feel ashamed of the "cowardly" thoughts he had and what he almost did. He decides to tell it because he thinks by writing it down, it will help to release some of the feeling, almost like telling someone.
ReplyDeleteElroy was very accepting and courteous of O'Brien's situation. He didn't ask questions, tried to help him out as much as he could financially, and gave him a place to reside. I think Elroy almost pressured him into going into the war because he watched O'Brien have those thoughts and cry. O'Brien didn't want to disappoint him and made his decision based on the fact that Elroy was watching him. Masculinity plays a big role in his decision because at that time, men were supposed to be big, bad, and not scared of anything. If they didn't want to engage in random combat, they were frowned upon and thought of as babies.
I believe that O'Brien says that he is a coward for going to war because he didn't know what sort of consequences he'd face from his family and/or friends once they found out what he didn't do. I don't think that O'Brien is a coward for going into war it just shows that he was more willing to face up to what he had been assigned to do and not run away like so many others had. O'Brien probably never told the story before because it would have seemed like he was trying to run away to something better and most people wouldn't have understood. He most likely decided to share the story now because it explains a bit more about his character and why being in the war is so difficult for him. I've also found that when you are writing about your own life brings back some strange memories and allows for a bit of closure once something is finally out there. I agree with Sarah about how Elroy was accepting and courteous but I don't believe that he pressured O'Brien to go into war. I thought that Elroy knew of O'Brien's situation and he provided an environment where O'Brien could keep busy but still be able to think over what he wanted to do with his life. O'Brien made his decision by feeling embarrassed that he had cried and how he was having such a hard time trying to figure out what he should do.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien says "I was a coward. I went to war." , He means that he was to coward to run away. He was in a boat with Elroy and he was 20 feet away from the shore. He could've jumped off the boat and ran away but instead he stayed on the boat and went to war. I believe that him facing his fear and going to war made him brave. In the way that I see it, he would've been more of a coward had he ran away from the war. O'Brien has never told the story before because he was afraid of what everyone would think of him. He was too worried about embarrassment. He decides to discuss it now because he has been holding it in for over 20 years and he's ready to let it all out. Elroy is an old man that keeps most of his questions and thoughts bottled up inside of him. I believe that he had some influence on O'Brien's decision. When O'Brien makes his decision about going to war he is on a boat with Elroy. He sees visions of all of his loved ones on the shore screaming at him. He then decides that he is going to war because he is too embarrassed not to. He doesn't want everyone to hate him and think that he is a chicken because he didn't go. Shame, embarrassment and masculinity had a big role in this section. He was ashamed that he had all of these different feelings about the war and that either decision he makes could put him in a rut. When it came to embarrassment O'Brien stated "all those eyes on me – the town, the whole universe – and I couldn't risk the embarrassment." He concluded that he would be humiliated if he didn't go. Masculinity came into play when he decided to just man up and go to war. Reading this, I was happy that he ended up going to the war even though he didn't believe in it.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, O'Brien had no desire to fight in the war, but he lacked the courage to stand up against his country. He feared the repercussions from his family and community if they found out he had tried to run from the draft. Cowards would have ran to Canada, but O'Brien overcame his fears and bravely signed up to serve in Vietnam. O'Brien feared the story would be embarrassing or shameful if he told anyone at the time. When he decided to tell his story, he probably felt relief for sharing a secret for so many years.
ReplyDeleteElroy lived a simple life, and his silence spoke to O'Brien in a different type of way. Elroy's boat symbolized a choice; O'Brien could either stay in the boat or swim to Canada. Society encouraged males to join the war effort, even if they did not agree with it. I think other Vietnam veterans share the same guilt and story.
There could be infinite reasons why O'Brien has never shared this story with anyone, but only he knows the true reason. If I had to make an inference about this question, I would say that he kept it to himself because of the shame and embarrassment that he as afraid he would feel from reliving it. Just like there could be infinite reasons why he chose to keep it to himself, there are also endless possibilities as to why he chose to share it. Personally, I believe that there is no right or wrong answer as to why he chose to share it after all of these years. Maybe he needed to get it off of his chest. Maybe he felt that it would fit in well with his novel. Or maybe he just starting pouring his heart out on paper and could not stop. Either way, it was one of my favorite chapters in the novel and I am glad that he decided to share it with us.
ReplyDeleteLets talk about Elroy. Elroy is is a peaceful, wise man that owns the camp site which lies close to the Canadian boarder that O'Brien happens upon. Little do either of them know, both Elroy and the camp ground would influence and change O'Brien's life forever. Although soft spoken, Elroy offered most of his advice through his actions and showed guidance to O'Brien which lead him down the path to making the right decision. However, the final decision could only be made solely by O'Brien himself. The toll of such a high stress situation was evident with his sleepless nights and terrible nightmares. I believe that O'Brien only made his decision after playing every other scenario through his head multiple times and realizing that the only logical ending to this impasse was to indeed go to war.
I think that the main reason to why O'Brien called himself a coward was that he was scared of rejection. O'Brien was scared that by going back to his normal life, the people he knew and loved, would find out about his cowardliness and they would mock him or treat him differently. My thoughts on why O'Brien didn't tell anyone about this is maybe he tried to forget it, like Blake said. O'Brien probably was embarrassed of his fear,and didn't want to share it with others until he got over the feeling that he was going to be judged.
ReplyDeleteElroy played a huge part on O'Brien's decision, by basically showing him humbleness. Elroy, the whole time O'Brien was at his campsite, never once asked him why he was there, or what he was running from. O'Brien felt that Elroy knew the reason, but never questioned him. O'Brien admired Elroy's kindness, and thought as they were on the river about how embarrassed he would be to run away from something where he could make memories, and share the same kindness as Elroy did. I think that Elroy gave O'Brien hope, which is what O'Brien needed at the moment, and he would use it for the rest of his life.
From my understanding, I think that O'Brien calls himself a coward because he went to war that he didn't understand. He had the choice of staying in Canada and avoiding a battle he didn't want to fight in. I can see why someone could both agree and disagree with this. Some people could agree with O'Brien because he was fighting for something he didn't want to fight for. Others may disagree with O'Brien because it takes a lot of courage to fight for something you do not agree with. I think O'Brien never told this story before because he would feel embarrassed of telling it. I think O'Brien decides to tell the story now because he has kept it inside him for so long that it bothers him everyday, and once he gets it off his chest he could feel better. Elroy was a very interesting person because although he didn't say anything about the war to O'Brien, it feels like Elroy was talking about the war the whole time. Elroy was the reason why O'Brien left for the war. Because Elroy never mentioned the war, O'Brien had some time to think over his life and the war. Elroy made O'Brien feel like he was at home. Elroy also helped O'Brien financially. I think O'Brien decided to leave because he felt like Elroy would be disappointed and ashamed of O'Brien. If O'Brien didn't feel the shame of not fighting for his country and the embarrassment of not being the strong young man he was expected to be he would have ran to Canada. O'Brien also felt a lack of masculinity because at that time a man was supposed to be brave and able to face anything. This made him decided to just man up and go to war.
ReplyDeleteFrom my understanding, I think that O'Brien calls himself a coward because he went to war that he didn't understand. He had the choice of staying in Canada and avoiding a battle he didn't want to fight in. I can see why someone could both agree and disagree with this. Some people could agree with O'Brien because he was fighting for something he didn't want to fight for. Others may disagree with O'Brien because it takes a lot of courage to fight for something you do not agree with. I think O'Brien never told this story before because he would feel embarrassed of telling it. I think O'Brien decides to tell the story now because he has kept it inside him for so long that it bothers him everyday, and once he gets it off his chest he could feel better. Elroy was a very interesting person because although he didn't say anything about the war to O'Brien, it feels like Elroy was talking about the war the whole time. Elroy was the reason why O'Brien left for the war. Because Elroy never mentioned the war, O'Brien had some time to think over his life and the war. Elroy made O'Brien feel like he was at home. Elroy also helped O'Brien financially. I think O'Brien decided to leave because he felt like Elroy would be disappointed and ashamed of O'Brien. If O'Brien didn't feel the shame of not fighting for his country and the embarrassment of not being the strong young man he was expected to be he would have ran to Canada. O'Brien also felt a lack of masculinity because at that time a man was supposed to be brave and able to face anything. This made him decided to just man up and go to war.
ReplyDeleteAs everyone else seems to agree, O’Brien went to a war he didn’t agree with or understand so he didn’t have to face the consequences of his family, friends, and community learning about him running away from the draft. I believe this is the main reason for him calling himself a coward, because instead of standing up for what he believed in, like Sarah said, he gave in to his fear of the war under the pressure of society and his family. I do not agree with him going to the war, especially when he feels strongly enough against it to run away and stay with Elroy for a time. However, if I was in the same position, I’m not sure I would have been able to do anything different. I would also care about what my family and friends think, but I would be beyond terrified of going to war. I wouldn’t know what to do either. I might end up giving into the pressure of society, and eventually going to war. I believe it would be hard for a person to decide what they would do unless they were specifically put into the position like O’Brien was. I do not think any less of O’Brien for giving into his fear, as I think many people today would possibly do the same. It might be even more “dishonorable” to run away to Canada, but how many people would take the risk and leave everything behind, including their reputation, family, and hometown?
ReplyDeleteO'Brien decided to wait to tell his story because he was afraid of the outcome of telling it, I'm glad he choose to write this novel because it's a great read. When the narrator said "I was a coward. I went to war." I believe he meant that it was against his political stance, and since he went against it he was a coward for not standing up for something he finds distasteful. I think Elroy believes in standing for your country and I believe, secretly, Elroy wanted O'Brien to go to war. Shame/embarrassment/masculinity plays a HUGE role in this novel. In 1968, if you didn't fight for your country, and you were a man, people would dishonor and hate on you. O'Brien did not want to take the chance to be hated on and dishonored by his family, so he decided to go to war.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement of why O'Brien decides to go to war. As a soldier, he chose the wrong reasons to stay and fight. A true soldier fighting for his country would stay and fight without looking back but O'Brien stayed for the wrong reasons, including his fear of being shunned for leaving with his life. I believe he kept this story to himself for so long because he was afraid of the embarrassment that could result from his actions. Returning to war was the only way O'Brien could keep his dignity if he didn't tell anybody else about it. If anybody else heard about his retreat to Canada, O'Brien would never hear the end of the ridiculing.
DeleteLike most people seem to be saying, I believe O'Brien calls himself a coward for going to war because he avoided the criticism from his family and friends. He says he did not agree with the war or its purpose and it was against what he believed in. Since he could not stand up for what he thought was right and did not have the courage to swim across the border into Canada, he called himself a coward. However, I think otherwise. Going to war instead and facing his fears was braver than running from his problems. I do not believe he was a coward for doing what he did. O'Brien has never told this story because he was afraid of what people would think of him. He decides to tell it now because it was a story he needed to stop hiding. Elroy was a quiet old man who owned the Tip Top Lodge, a camping site on the river. He wanted O'Brien to face his fear and go to war, but he also wanted him to make the decision for himself. The fact that he was so close to the Canadian shore symbolized how close he was to fleeing from his problems. O'Brien made his decision about going to war when Elroy took him close to the Canadian border and waited for O'Brien to decide what he was going to do. That is when he broke down and decided to do the right thing -- face his problems head on. Shame, embarrassment, and masculinity all play huge roles in his decision. He will feel shame if he runs from his problems instead of dealing with them. He feels embarrassment from his friends and family and what they will think of him if he decided to cross the border. Masculinity comes into play because in that time period, if you did not fight for America you were looked down upon. When reading this section, I was shocked at how tough of a decision it was some of these soldiers had. It was either flee the country to be looked down upon or enter the war where you may possibly never come back.
ReplyDeleteWhen the narrator said he was a coward he meant that he was scared, alone, and helpless. I think he was scared to dye because her forced to do something he didn't want to do. He was alone because he was too embarrassed to tell anybody. He was helpless because there was nothing he could to change it. I agree he was a coward. During this period in history men weren't supposed to be scared or cowardly and he didn't tell anyone because he didn't want anything to think that and ruin his reputation. I think times have changed and people understand and know more about the war so he feels more comfortable to tell people. I relate to this because I would feel the same way he did even though I'm a girl and I wouldn't be put in that position. It still seems like I would know what it would be like just by reading the book.
ReplyDeleteI think that O'Brien claimed he was a coward to go to war because in his mind he absolutely did not want to go but then admitted defeat and went. When O'Brien ran off and went to the cabins across the river from Canada, he was sure he was running off and avoiding the draft. He helped Elroy with chores and just small jobs to help pay for his stay at the cabin, but I think Elroy helped him see that staying wasn't a terrible choice and showed him his greatest fear of actually leaving by taking O'Brien out on the river near the border of Canada. O'Brien talked about all the things he saw in the forest and realized he needed to go back and face his greatest fear of going to war. O'Brien says he was a coward for going to the war but he was actually being quite brave to go with being so close to being able to escape.
ReplyDeleteWhat I believe is that O'Brien is not a coward for going to war, he still went. He mentally beats him self up for his thought of fleeing away and avoiding the draft. I think the reason he never has told this story is to be looked at differently, treated differently, to lose respect. But in all reality he overcame his thought of fleeing and went to the war anyways which shows a great deal of bravery to me. Elroy was a nice, quiet old man who just really wanted O'Brien to face his fears. He helped him realize that whatever decision he chose was still his decision and that it'll be okay. Overall restating my beginning sentence, I do not believe he was a coward because he overcame his will to flee away from the war.
ReplyDeleteI believe that O'Brien felt he was a coward for leaving and abandoning his plan to avoid fighting for something he did not care for. Personally, I do not feel that he was one because I believe that fighting in a war is something that takes an immense amount of courage. Perhaps he never told that story before because he did not think is was relevant. Maybe, in his mind, all that mattered during the fight was that he ended up at war and he couldn't turn back now, so he was going to do what he could to stay alive. He may have kept it to himself after the war because he did not see a point in telling it without reason. While he was writing, he may have come to realize that his past prior to the war does not make him any less of a veteran.
ReplyDeleteElroy was a kind soul who helped O'Brien find his way when he could no longer see where he was going after he found out he had to fight in Nam. Elroy provided food, shelter, and companionship for O'Brien. He did not pry Tim to see what his story was or what brought him to where he ended up. Tim decided to go to war when he was out fishing with Elroy and had a breakdown. Embarrassment comes into play here because he states that he decided he would fight in the war because he would have been embarrassed not to.
While reading this section, I felt admiration towards Elroy for leaving Tim be, but providing him what he needed all the same. To add, I also was frustrated that Tim did not take the $200, although I would have done the same thing if I were in a similar situation.
During the this story O'Brien confesses that he almost ran away from the United States to get out of a war he did not believe in fighting. He personally believes that he is a coward for not following through on his original idea, I however strongly disagree. Anyone that serves or has served for the greatest army in the world is certainly no coward. If it was easy then more people would do it. I was glad that O'Brien decided to fight for his country instead of fleeing to Canada. He says he never told the story because it would only bring shame and embarrassment to himself and his family. He believes that telling the story will relieve some of the pressure that it seems to be putting on his mind. O'Brien had the chance to jump out of the boat and swim to shore into Canada after Elroy took him into his care. Tim couldn't bring himself to do this because he thought of how his small town would be talking about the runaway boy. He couldn't bring himself to shame his family through his actions. I found the actions of Elroy perplexing, he gave Tim the necessities to survive without really finding out why he was there. I think these actions were not normal, but at the same time very wise. By not pushing Tim he ultimately helped him work through his ordeal and came to conclusion of going to war.
ReplyDeleteI think Tim O'Brian says that he is a coward because instead of facing the humiliation he might have deal with for not going to the war; he just goes to the war. He is saying that he is a coward because he did not stand up for what he believed in; instead, he just went along with what he completely disagreed with. But I do not agree with Tim on that. I think that he is a brave man for going into a war he did not agree with at all. I would have run away as he planned if that happened to me but he was courageous and brave and went to the war.
ReplyDeleteWhat I felt while reading this chapter of the book was sympathy for O'Brian. I felt sorry for him because I have felt the same way about situations that I have been in. I also thought that what Elroy did for O’brian was the kindest thing anyone could have done for O'Brian at that time. My heart kind of rested thinking that there were people like that during the time of war.
What O'Brien means by saying he is a coward for going to war is that he dipped into pressure from his town, and what he thought was his obligation to go to war, even though he was drafted. He was saying that he was a coward cause he couldn't handle his being looked at as an embarrassment so he had to go over to Vietnam. After O'Brien takes a trip up to where Elroy works he quickly realized that it was all his decision whether for the right one or wrong he had to choose by himself, and that's what you do as an adult especially in this situation. Elroy let O'Brien think about what he had to do for the small window they were together in peace and quiet, and when he had him work it was to take his mind off the decision. Then when they went fishing near the border where O'Brien easily could have jumped out and been gone forever and never see his family again, or go off to war where he didn't want to go and maybe not come back from that, so he was "in between a rock and a hard place" as the saying goes. Shame and embarrassment play the biggest roles in this part because he didn't want to shame his family name and parents or town even, but he didn't believe this war was his to fight in. This section made me think of what I would do, when I'm 18 or older and my name is picked to serve our country if I would fight or run, and I used to think I would fight for sure, but now that I think about it I would be leaving my family and maybe never see them again. But then again I would be fighting for freedom and democracy around the world, but all I know is now that I wouldn't join the military unless I absolutely had to.
ReplyDeleteI think what O'Brien meant by saying he wad a coward is he didn't stand up for what he thought was right. He believed the war in Vietnam was wrong, but instead of fleeing to Canada, he went to war. I don't not think he is a coward at all. People who fight for are country are heroes. They are brave and courageous and no where near being a coward. I think he never told this story because he is embarrassed and telling this story would bring back all the emotions he felt during this time. When I was reading this section, I felt like I was feeling his pain. I can't image how scared he was knowing he had to go to war and that he may never come back home.
ReplyDeleteI think what O'Brien meant by saying he wad a coward is he didn't stand up for what he thought was right. He believed the war in Vietnam was wrong, but instead of fleeing to Canada, he went to war. I don't not think he is a coward at all. People who fight for are country are heroes. They are brave and courageous and no where near being a coward. I think he never told this story because he is embarrassed and telling this story would bring back all the emotions he felt during this time. When I was reading this section, I felt like I was feeling his pain. I can't image how scared he was knowing he had to go to war and that he may never come back home.
ReplyDeleteI think O'Brien considered himself a coward because he did what everyone expected him to do. Everyone expected him to not run away from the problems in his life, and everyone expected him not to go against his country. He couldn't tell this story earlier because would have been labeled a coward and loser. America prides itself on having soldiers who are heroes, but what about the men who choke and try to flee? They label them traitors and scum which just isn't true. Fear is a natural feeling that overcomes individuals at times when we are incredibly scared. To go against fear is to go against the natural order of human nature, which is a very courageous thing to do. O'Brien might have called himself a coward because he gave into expectations, but I believe he was really a hero for looking fear in the eye and heading straight to war.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien says he is a coward and went to war he associates going to war with being a coward for many reasons. First of all, he was unable to carry through with his plan to escape to Canada to make a new life. He was too scared to start over from scratch so he decided it would be easier to go to war. Also, he was scared of losing the respect of those he cares about and the town he lived in. He was too scared of hurting his reputation to escape the war. Lastly, I think he was too scared to break the rules of society and go against the flow. This would take out the crutch he had leaned on his whole life and that terrified him. All of these factors forced him to give up on his plans in a cowardly fashion that caused him to have a short breakdown. He was too scared to even escape his problem, which he viewed as being cowardly.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you John when you say that the biggest reason O'Brien stayed is that he didn't want to go against the flow in society. In todays world we are seeing more and more people breaking away from the crowd, but back then I feel that breaking away was a million times harder than it is today. That is why I think it is hard to compare our decisions to the ones O'Brien had to make. You are exactly right when you say that his entire life balanced on that one decision mainly because their society is much less understanding than the one we live in today.
DeleteWhen O'Brien says, "I was a coward I went to war." What he is trying to say is that even though he believed the war was a pointless war and wanted to avoid dying in some other country for what he didn't even believe in. He put his beliefs aside and went to war anyways because he was afraid of what people may say if he fled to avoid the draft. He did not want to be viewed as a coward by his family and friends so he went off to war. But letting what other people think of you and determine your decisions isn't always the best option either. O'Brien viewed himself as a coward because he was not going to fight for any of the reasons he should. He was just going because he was afraid of what would happen if he didn't. It is understanding why he would wait so long to tell this story because he was probably embarrassed to be thinking such things and if he told he knew all those feelings might come back to him and overwhelm him into his past. But I suppose he finally started to understand how long it's been and that others probably felt the way he did too so he told so he could finally meet his past and move forward from it. He should not be viewed as a coward in anyway because if you put another man in his shoes I am sure he would do the same thing, after all we are only human and we want to save ourselves of pain physically and mentally. O'Brien just had to chose one.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien didn't want to fight in the Vietnam War because he was against it. He ran off to Canada and tried to escape the war. His original plan was to not fight in the war, but he gave in and went anyway. He said he was a coward because he backed out of his own plan so he wouldn't let down his family and friends. O'Brien was worried he would be called a coward if he didn't go to war. Either way it was a lose-lose situation for him. I think he should have stuck with his plan and do what he wanted to do. I understand why he went back on his plan, he valued his loved ones views more than sticking up for what he thought was right. I would like to say that I would have stuck with my original plan, but I know I would end up doing the same thing so I wouldn't let my family and friends down. O'Brien never shared this story because he was embarrassed. He was scared to tell people how he ran off and away from the war.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien said he was a coward because the war had never been his biggest fear; his biggest fear was having to face his friends and family if he ran away. He was afraid of being rejected by those he knew. He knew that going to war was the wrong choice - he didn't have any place in that war, and he knew it - but he went anyways, because it seemed far less threatening than the rejection that he thought would be imminent if he ran away. I don't agree with this, though. It's perfectly understandable that O'Brien would not want to risk his life for something he didn't care about - running away would have been perfectly logical. However, he was afraid that he would be judged for doing what was right. Humans, as a whole, have developed a need to be accepted. Everything we do seems to be in an effort to be accepted in the eyes of our peers. Why? It doesn't physically help us to be accepted, so why bother? No one knows why we have this need. All we know is that we crave acceptance.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien waited so long to tell this story because of that need for acceptance. He felt that, even though he didn't actually run from the war, he would be rejected because he even considered doing so. Not wanting to fight in the war is a totally normal thought, but he felt like was the only person ever to have thought about doing so, which led to him just not telling anyone about it. I think that O'Brien chose to tell this story in the book because he felt guilty. The story probably was not in the original plans for the book, but he felt guilty about leaving it out. If he was going to tell the story of a war, he was going to tell the whole story - not just the parts he was okay with. Also, he probably just wanted to tell someone. The guilt would have eaten him alive if he hadn't.
Elroy's acceptance of O'Brien's decision, I think, is the main reason that O'Brien decided to go to war. He was so prepared for rejection, for disappointment, that the acceptance startled him. He hadn't prepared himself for that. He felt like he didn't deserve the acceptance, so he gave it back and went to war. He also knew that not everyone would be as accepting as Elroy, and he felt shameful for having ran off. Men were supposed to be tough, and here he was, running from a war. He didn't want to be called weak for not doing something that everyone else did without any issues. He felt like he was the only person who had ran from the war, and he was mortified by the thought, so he choked down his fears and went to war.
O'Brien feared telling his story because he felt as though he would be judged by his friends and family. This assumption is correct as people frequently judge others who do not conform to whatever society the individual in. The quote "I was a coward I went to war," describes that, rather then stand up for what he believes in. I agree with him, personally I believe as though people should always express their beliefs regardless of what is said in society. However unfortunately I feel as though many people (possibly including myself) would have been to cowardly to to stand up for their beliefs and would have just gone along with the expectations of their society.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien feared telling his story because he felt as though he would be judged by his friends and family. This assumption is correct as people frequently judge others who do not conform to whatever society the individual in. The quote "I was a coward I went to war," describes that, rather then stand up for what he believes in. I agree with him, personally I believe as though people should always express their beliefs regardless of what is said in society. However unfortunately I feel as though many people (possibly including myself) would have been to cowardly to to stand up for their beliefs and would have just gone along with the expectations of their society.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien said he was a coward for going to war, there are many reasons why he would have thought this. He had made plans to go to Canada to get away from the war. It would have been easy for him to leave it all behind but he couldn't. He went to war because he was worried about what people would say and think about him if he didn't. O'Brien didn't stand up for what he believed in by going to war. His whole life he never liked war and going to be a soldier was against what he believed in. Tim O'Brien wasn't a coward for going to war, but in his eyes he was because of all of these reasons. Sometimes when you don't look like a coward to others, you are a coward to yourself. Most people just go along with what everyone else wants even if its not right for themselves.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien said he was a coward because he did not stand for what he thought was right. He did not think war was right but he sided with public opinion and went to Vietnam. If you were a man in 1968 you were expected to go off to war and fight for your country, and if you ran off you were a coward. In my mind O'Brien would have been a coward either way. If he ran away to Canada he would be a coward, but if went to go fight in the war he would be a coward in his mind. O'Brien never told this story before because he probably was embarrassed of running away and leaving everything behind just so he would not have to fight in a war. After 20 years he realized that other people may be experiencing the same thoughts he had and could relate. Elroy was an old, humble, and respectable man that kept to himself and tried to have as little influence on O'Brien as possible. When Elroy takes him fishing one day and O'Brien sees Canada he realizes he can not be known as the coward that ran away. My thoughts while reading this chapter made me realize that peer pressure and public opinion influence the actions people take. People are afraid to be outsiders because of what others might think.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your analysis of how the narrator would have been a coward either way -stuck in a "doomed if I do, doomed if I don't"sort of situation. He's young though, and therefore forgivable. He's led an easy life and though he opposed the war, there wasn't much he was doing to stop it. To do much about the war by going to rallies and such, he'd likely be labeled as part of the scum of the new, corrupted generation, which it's clear he fears abandonment from his world.
DeleteO'Brien chooses to tell this story now to allow readers to see the difference between a naive Jimmy Cross and one who has seen an awful world. It also helps to explain how he got there, and to show that he is even more scared and miserable than the reader perceived.
Tim O'Brien was a coward when he went to war. He did not go to the war because he felt the need to live up to his responsibilities, he went because he was afraid of what people might think of him if he did not go. O'Brien stated, "I was too good for this war. Too smart, too passionate, too everything... I was above it." These are all excuses. I think that the real reason O'Brien did not want to go was because he was scared of dying. He looks for ways to say it is against his religion, or to say that he is too sick. He burns the letter, acting as if it were not in existence. His final desperate act was trying to sneak into Canada. I think that he did not bring up his fear of death because he was embarrassed. On O'Brien's way to Canada, he stayed with Elroy just before the border. I think that staying with Elroy helped slow down Tim O'Brien's life and helped him think about his decision before jumping headfirst into what could be the rest of his life. Elroy had a calming presence and never pushed him into talking. Sometimes just having another person sitting with you can be comforting and help you determine what you should do. In the end, O'Brien went to war because he was too scared to sit in the diner of his hometown and listen to the whispers of shame. He went to war because he did not want to live in Canada and have to face his own personal shame everyday. Though O'Brien was still a coward when he entered the war, he gained a lot of my respect for not running away from his responsibilities.
ReplyDeleteI believe that O’Brien calls himself a coward for going to war because he didn't want to go in the first place. I think he was afraid of what others would think of him and judge him. Also he didn't agree with the war that he was going to fight for. O’Brien did have to have a lot of courage to go fight in the war when he could have chose not to go. In my opinion he let the fear of what his family and friends would think of him control his decision. I think he has been holding his story in for so long that he finally has to let it out and tell it. I feel that Elroy simply stood by O’Brien’s side while he made his decision. Sammy said Elroy never forced him to talk about crossing the boarder or go to war which I agree with. He was there for him and gave him a place where he could focus on his decision and not have anyone influence him.
ReplyDeleteThe quote "I was a coward. I went to the war..." meant that instead of him fighting for the right to live at home he caved in and went to the war instead. He would be able to not go to the war and rip his draft card up but the cost of getting in trouble, going to jail, and being looked down upon people was too much for him. I somewhat agree that he was a "coward," but it is understandable because standing up against your country and not going in the war you have been drafted in takes a lot of guts.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien didn't want to tell the story because in the story he would have to confess his shame of wanting to run away from all of his problems. He was embarrassed by his acts, but he tells it anyway "to relieve at least some of the pressure on [his] dreams." O'Brien decides to go into the war to not have to face the shame of telling his loved ones that he had run away to not go in the war. He didn't want people to view him as a coward that doesn't care for his country either.
Like other people have commented, I also feel that Elroy doesn't have too much of an influence on O'Brien. I think that Elroy was simply understanding and helpful, which might have somewhat guilted him into going into the war. What was most influencing on O'Brien to finally go to the war was that the thought of what the ones he loved and knew would think of him if he ran away put himself to shame and guilt-tripped him into the war.
I agree completely with your interpretation of the quote and that he was afraid of being judged by his community. However I do not feel as though this is understandable that he did not follow his beliefs and instead conformed to the pressure of society. In countries where military service and loyalty to ones county (especially the United States of America) it is more important then ever to stand up against the expectations of society in order to promote change and diversity, slimier to how the people who protested the Vietnam war were.
DeleteI agree completely with your interpretation of the quote and that he was afraid of being judged by his community. However I do not feel as though this is understandable that he did not follow his beliefs and instead conformed to the pressure of society. In countries where military service and loyalty to ones county (especially the United States of America) it is more important then ever to stand up against the expectations of society in order to promote change and diversity, slimier to how the people who protested the Vietnam war were.
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ReplyDeleteThe quote "I was a coward. I went to the war.." meant that instead of leaving and being judged. which he feared, he chose to go to war. He could have simply gone to Canada, with the help he was given, but instead he chose to not face judgement.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien was embarrassed to tell the story to begin with. He didn't want to admit that he was running from the war, since during the time, not wanting to fight would be seen as disrespect for his country.
I believe Elroy had a huge impact on O'Brien's choice to go to war. It was with his help that he had the option to leave to Canada, and with his help that he had time to actually make a decision on whether or not he wanted to leave.
At the end of that chapter O'Brien meant when he called himself a coward was that he did not have the nerve to stick up for himself and his beliefs. Not wanting any part of the war his idea was to escape the draft by going to Canada but in the end he couldn't manage the courage to leave and have the consequence of having to tell others who did go to the war why he ran away from his responsibilities as an American. He took the easy road which was to agree to the draft and do as he was told which in his eyes was the cowardly thing to do. He never told this story not only because he had never wanted anyway to think badly of him and how he had felt about the war and his original plan to run away and how close he had came to the Canadian border and how he had tears in his eyes in front of the old man, but also because the embarrassment that he felt about his inability to make a decision when Canada was right in front of him and all he could manage to do was cry.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien says "I was a coward. I went to war." He meant that he thinks he was coward because he just did what he was supposed to. He didn't fight for what he really wanted to do which was to stay home. He was too afraid of people judging him and looking down on him for running away when they all went to the war. Also the thought of going to jail scared him. He thought of himself as coward because he couldn't stick up for his beliefs instead he just caved and did what everybody else was. He was ashamed and didn't want people to know what he did especially his parents.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien didn't tell this story because to him it was embarrassing. He didn't want people to know that he ran from his problems. He was ashamed and didn't want people to look down on him.
I feel that Elroy doesn't influence O'Brien but he understands him. Also he helps O'Brien. Elroy didn't influence him to go to war. What Elroy did was try to help O'Brien get to Canada and runaway. What made O'Brien decide to go to war was the thought of what his parents and other loved ones would think of him. He couldn't take all the shame that it would bring to him. That is what really influenced him.
O'Brien is ashamed even telling the story of his hesitation to go to war. He is defensive about it, in a few examples. He talks of the way people support the war, but won't fight for it themselves. They send him instead, to fight a war he doesn't believe in. He talks of the way people approach a solider in a bar, with a pat on the back and the offer to buy the solider a drink. O'Brien isn't fond of these things, he doesn't want them. He wants an escape. Elroy is his temporary escape. I feel that Elroy was just a representation of this decision making time in O'Brien's life. Yes, Elroy did take him in and provide for him. But I feel that when presented with the option to go to Canada, Elroy knew that O'Brien wouldn't go through with it. I think that Elroy could see O'Brien's sense of dignity, and that he was a man who wouldn't run from his problems. I think the decision had been inside of O'Brien all along.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien says "i was a coward. I went to war." He means that he was afraid to do what he thought was right and so he went back home and decided to go to war. O'Brien didn't believe the war was right and was very upset when he was drafted. At first O'Brien runs away and meets Elroy. Elroy to him is a sign of hope that he won't have to do what he knows isn't right. But on a fishing trip with Elroy is when he decides instead of running away he should go back and face what has been thrown at him.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien states that he is a coward, he gives in to what everybody wants for him, which was to go into the war. O'Brien had no interest in participating in the war at all, "A mistake, maybe a foul up in the paperwork. I was no soldier" (39). O'Brien never got the courage to speak up for himself. That's what made him a coward, when he started to care what other people would think of him if he did not go into the war. When he met Elroy, he specifically did not tell him why he was going to Canada, but O'Brien still felt embarrassment because he was trying to find a way to escape from the reality of the war. If going to Canada made him feel ashamed of himself, and he couldn't even tell Elroy why he was there, then I can see why he didn't tell others why he went to Canada. Most people would quickly judge O'Brien if they found out he didn't want to fight in the war. The majority of people that have served have some sort of pride when they serve in war because they are representing their home country. O'Brien did not want to be the odd man out. I don't think that Elroy made a difference in O'Brien's decision because Elroy did not ask him why he was at the Tip Top Lounge and did not give him any war advice. O'Brien made the decision to face the reality of Vietnam by himself.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of the Rainy River, O'Brien states "I was a coward. I went to the war." In this statement, O'brien means that by coming all the way to the Canadian border to escape the war and then turning back on his original plan to escape the war he could not stand for what he believed in, thus making him a coward. I disagree that O'Brien became a coward by turning back on his original plan of escaping the war. O'Brien had never told this story before the novel's release as he was embarrassed to tell i. O'Brien most likely believed that people would see him as a coward who tried to abandon his country and a weak man who could not follow through with his plans.
ReplyDeleteElroy Berdahl is a short, elderly man who never asked about other people's business and often spoke in cryptic statements on the rare occasion that he actually spoke. At the campgrounds, O'Brien was given plenty of time to think about his actions for the future as Elroy never brought up the topic of the war. Elroy ultimately influenced by O’Brien’s decision by bringing O’Brien to the United States' border with Canada. Elroy then began to patiently fish giving O’Brien a chance to think about his future. By bringing O’Brien so close to the Canadian side of the Rainy River, Elroy presents O'Brien with the chance to escape from the draft. At this time, O'Brien finds himself paralyzed by his emotions and unable to follow through with his plan. After a while, O'Brien came to his decision after seeing a vision in which every person he had met, learned about, and would meet were chanting him on to come to either shore. Not knowing which to decide, O'Brien ultimately decides to return back home and go to the war. O'Brien thus calls himself a coward because he followed what society wanted him to do instead of following through with his plan. While reading this section, I thought that O'Brien could be considered brave no matter which shore line he ended up choosing. I thought this because, had O'Brien chosen to head to Canada, he would have had to been brave to resist all of his society's pressure on him and any shame they tried to force upon him, while he ultimately would stand for what he believed. O'Brien also looked just as brave heading towards the war he did not want to participate in as he could very well end up dying for something that he did not believe in.
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ReplyDeleteI believe O'Brien calls himself a coward because he doesn't go to Canada and instead goes to the war. From the beginning he doesn't support the war and decides to make his parents upset and go to Canada to escape from his troubles. Elroy takes the boy in for a few days while he is contemplating what to do and whether to return home or escape, he gives the boy food shelter and work to do while he is staying there. O'Brien ultimately decides what to do when he is on the lake and actually sees Canada, sees what is happening and sees what he would be doing to his family and friends, he decides to stay in the boat with Elroy and go back home and just take part in the war, Elroy played his part in the decision by making it a real scenario and possibility but also showing how things would turn out for O'Brien
ReplyDeleteO'Brien calls himself a coward because he went to war to avoid tarnishing his family name and his reputation. While he does support some aspects of the war he is against a majority of it. Though it is against his beliefs and what he wishes to stand for he decided to go to war to avoid the shame it would bring his family. I feel that Elroy really helped him make his final decision by bringing him to the Canadian border, he put the easy way out in front of O'Brien but he chose to stay and fight.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien states that he is a coward because he was planning to run off to Canada and leave his family just to avoid going to war. Once he realized that he was a coward he decided to go to war. I disagree, I don't believe that would make him a coward because he publicly stated that he doesn't agree with the war and he couldn't oppose for several reasons.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien never told this story to people because he was too embarrassed for himself. He thought people would be ashamed of him. I believe that he's telling that story now to inform people and to inspire them, remind them that everyone has a low point in their life.
Elroy is an intelligent and understanding man. He doesn't ask O'Brien why he wants to go to Canada because he can already guess. O'Brien decided to go to war because he was too embarrassed not to. He thought his whole community would be ashamed to even know him because he is supposed to be a man and skipping out on war is not masculine.
I agree that O'Brien feels like a coward because he ran away from his friends and family to keep from going into the war. along with KInsey, I also disagree with him being a coward. He is against the war all together and that gives him no reason to fight in it. Elroy is described as an older man who is sharp and intelligent. He lets O'Brien stay with him for six days until O'Brien reaches his decision to go to war. O'Brien comes to the decision on leaving for war when Elroy takes him out fishing close to the Canadian border. O'Brien could have jumped off the boat and gone to Canada to avoid the war. Instead, because of the guilt and shame, O'Brien breaks out into tears and decides to go to war because of embarrassment not to. While reading this section, I felt bad for O'Brien. He was stuck in a compromising position with having to chose whether or not to let his family down and look like a coward not going to the war or forcing himself to do something he was not fond of by going to the war in Vietnam and fighting.
DeleteO'Brien says he is a coward because he went against his beliefs and went to war. He doesn't support the war but cares more about what his family and hometown thinks of him. He also thinks he is a coward because he is scared of going to war. I do not think he is a coward because he faces his fears and goes to fight in the war. O'Brien doesn't tell anyone about staying in the cabin with Elroy because he doesn't want anyone to know how scared and hesitant he was of fighting for his country. He decides to tell the story now because he still feels guilty about it. Talking about it makes him feel better and makes him feel like less of a coward for owning up to it. Elroy influences O'Brien by not scaring him away. O'Brien really needed time to think about what was going happen and at home he was constantly asked about what he was going to do. Elroy didn't say anything to O'Brien to scare him off and let O'Brien figure it out on his own. Elroy brings O'Brien to the Canada border without even knowing for sure that O'Brien was running from the draft. O'Brien only went to war because he didn't want to be embarrassed for looking like a coward.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien says he is a coward because he went against his beliefs and went to war. He doesn't support the war but cares more about what his family and hometown thinks of him. He also thinks he is a coward because he is scared of going to war. I do not think he is a coward because he faces his fears and goes to fight in the war. O'Brien doesn't tell anyone about staying in the cabin with Elroy because he doesn't want anyone to know how scared and hesitant he was of fighting for his country. He decides to tell the story now because he still feels guilty about it. Talking about it makes him feel better and makes him feel like less of a coward for owning up to it. Elroy influences O'Brien by not scaring him away. O'Brien really needed time to think about what was going happen and at home he was constantly asked about what he was going to do. Elroy didn't say anything to O'Brien to scare him off and let O'Brien figure it out on his own. Elroy brings O'Brien to the Canada border without even knowing for sure that O'Brien was running from the draft. O'Brien only went to war because he didn't want to be embarrassed for looking like a coward.
ReplyDeleteWhen the narrator says, “I was a coward. I went to the war.” What I think he means by this is that he choose his beliefs against the war because he couldn’t face the embarrassment his family and himself would face if he decided to flee and go to Canada. I believe the reason O’Brian has never told this story before is because he didn’t want to be judged that he hesitated to pick up his life and change it just because his country asked him to go to war. I believe shame meant everything in his choice to go to war because if it not for that shame that would be looked upon him and his family if he decided to flee, I believe that he would have stuck with his beliefs and not go fight in a war that he did not believe in.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien says this, I believe that he means that he went to war to avoid facing problems with his family. I agree with the other comments in that this doesn't make him a coward. In fact, I believe that it was brave of him to go to war, despite what he believed himself, just for his family's sake. O'Brien was ashamed of his decision, which is why he hadn't told anyone about this before.
ReplyDeleteWhen O'Brien says this, I believe that he means that he went to war to avoid facing problems with his family. I agree with the other comments in that this doesn't make him a coward. In fact, I believe that it was brave of him to go to war, despite what he believed himself, just for his family's sake. O'Brien was ashamed of his decision, which is why he hadn't told anyone about this before.
ReplyDeleteMost people would think going to a war is the least cowardly thing a person could do but because of what the narrator thought, going to war was the cowardly choice. To the narrator running away to Canada and not caring about what people would think of him was the brave choice. In a way it's brave but it's also cowardly. It's brave to not care about what people think but it's cowardly to run away from the draft. The narrator was so scared though that he didn't even think that his actions because of his fear were truly the cowards choice. Since he thought that escaping was brave he viewed going back and facing the draft as cowardly. His actions can be thought of either way but because of his personal thoughts and fears he viewed them this way.
ReplyDeleteI think he means that by going to war he didn't have to deal with what people would think of him if he stayed, and that made him a coward. I understand his point of view but at the same time I think it's more cowardly if he were to stay home and not go to war. It takes a lot to just leave your life and go into something where you could die at any moment. I think he never told this story before because he was embarrassed for not wanting to go to war and almost running away to Canada. I think Elroy knew pretty much the whole time why O'Brien was there. He knew if he brought him close enough to Canada it would force him to make his decision. He never bothered O'Brien with questions or really any conversation because it was something he had to figure out by himself.
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ReplyDeleteAlthough going to war is definitely not a cowardly act, I can see the point O'Brien made when calling himself a coward. It almost seemed as if O'Brien decided to gear up and go to war for all the wrong reasons. Yes, he was respectful to his nation, but a lot of the driving force behind his enrollment was the fear of himself losing the respect from others. This would have caused problems within his family and problems with folks around town. However, if this was the reason for O'Brien's enrollment, "coward" may be an accurate description for him, as he was not a coward of war, but feared damaging his reputation.
ReplyDeleteI agree Matt even though we can defend O'Brien for the hard decision he had to make but there were a lot of other men who were faced with the same decision and they decided to not go to war. Even if O'Brien didn't go to war and they completely derailed his life I still don't think that it compares to the PTSD that they have to deal with after the war. Of course O'Brien didn't know the full extent of the war, but he still had a shot to be his own independent figure who stood for what was right and for not doing that I think that O'Brien including a lot of the other men were cowards.
DeleteWhen the narrator states, "I'm a coward. I went to war." he is saying how he is a coward for not sticking up for his own beliefs, but choosing the "easy way out", to war. Instead of doing what he truly wanted to do with his life, he was swayed by a rush of emotions including fear, and shame. O'Brien refused to do what he believed was right due to the fear of rejection, the fear of bringing shame to his family name. He would rather die at war, than to be ridiculed for his choices. He felt as if he was a coward for choosing pride, over belief. I do not believe that O'Brien was a coward. Sure, he chose his pride over his opinion on war, but going to war takes a lot of bravery. He chose to go to war for his family, he wanted to make a good name for them, despite his beliefs regarding the war. O'Brien states that he has never told this story to anyone before, perhaps it was once again, because of the fear of shame, and the shame of rejection. All the fears he felt at that moment, he didn't want to relive the moment by telling it. In his book, O'Brien writes about how telling the story may relieve some of the pressure in his dreams, as if his decision haunts him to this day. Perhaps, telling this story relieves some of the guilt he feels from keeping it away for so long, perhaps admitting to his actions would finally let out all the pent up feelings he has had deep inside for all these years. What better time to confess your story than in a novel filled with war confessions? O'Brien states that Elroy, the old man at Tip Top Lodge was indeed his hero. The man greatly influenced O'Brien's decision of going to war. One of the greatest reasons as to why Elroy was such a hero to O'Brien, was because the man didn't pry, he just somehow understood. He knew it was sketchy, a young man, happening to drive all the way up North near the Canadian border, not to mention it was drafting season during a war. All signs pointing in the same direction, yet, the man didn't feel the need to question him. O'Brien finally reaches his decision when Elroy puts the choice directly in front of him to make. By using the excuse of fishing, out by the shore of Canada, O'Brien was given the opportunity to jump out, to go live a free life away from the war, yet, he chose to stay. He cried at his indecisive, cowardliness, but yes, he decided to stay for pride. The ideas of shame, embarrassment, and masculinity is was shaped his decision. O'Brien's greatest fears at the time was to be embarrassed, to be shamed, and to have people ridiculing his masculinity due to his beliefs. He chose a life filled with war, over a life filled with shame.
ReplyDeleteWhen the narrator says this he means that he went to war in fear of how people would think of him if he hadn’t, not because he wanted to serve the country. I agree to a certain extent I don’t believe he was a coward because he went to war which takes bravery; but also I do think he is for the reason he went. O’Brien never told the story because it was embarrassing. He decided to tell it now because he was finally ready to tell it. He wanted to thank Elroy. He wanted to be true in who he was and where he started. He didn’t want to lie and say he was the perfect soldier, he wanted to be true to what happened.
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ReplyDeleteThe narrator says this because he thinks that it is cowardly for him not to stand up for what was right. Unfortunately these men were just born in the wrong period of time and had to go and do things that young men today cannot begin to perceive. These men were forced into and took the place of a scapegoat for their generation because they had to go to war no wonder they did not want to go. O'Brien had two choices, be the coward who goes to war and kills innocent or be the coward who stands up for what was right. Unfortunately he collapsed under pressure like most of us do in those kinds of situations.
ReplyDeleteThe narrator says this because he thinks that it is cowardly for him not to stand up for what was right. Unfortunately these men were just born in the wrong period of time and had to go and do things that young men today cannot begin to perceive. These men were forced into and took the place of a scapegoat for their generation because they had to go to war no wonder they did not want to go. O'Brien had two choices, be the coward who goes to war and kills innocent or be the coward who stands up for what was right. Unfortunately he collapsed under pressure like most of us do in those kinds of situations.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the narrator claims to be a coward because he could not follow through with his decision to leave, but also because he knew it was not his choice to fight in the war. O'Brien wanted to avoid the war and leave to Canada, but instead he cried and ended up going home. He saw this as a cowardly action because he was too afraid of the judgement he would receive. At the same time he views himself as a coward because he did not sign up for the war. There was no noble act in being forced to kill people who had done nothing wrong to you. Either way he viewed himself as a coward. This was not only the case for him but also many others serving in the war. They were afraid of what was to come, afraid of letting down their country. So, in stating that he was a coward O'Brien left for the war to join the other men who had been blindly thrown into it.
ReplyDeleteO'Brian never told the story to anyone because he was embarrassed. Men like O'Brian are afraid to show their emotions, but they are more afraid of what others think of them than going to war and death itself. When O'brian said that he was a coward because he went to war, he truly meant it. In his eyes it was not the brave thing to do. He was afraid to go to Canada, but that was the brave thing to do. He was going to war for all the wrong reasons. A true brave soldier goes to war to protect and serve, not because he is afraid of how others would react if he didn't. Elroy was a great role model for O'Brian in an unspoken kind of way. He never pried no matter how curious he was. He supported O'Brian though feeding him, giving him shelter, providing him with jobs to keep him busy. He gave him "Emergency Money" and gave him all of the tools to escape. When he brought O'Brian to the river, that's when O'Brian realized Elroy had to have known all along, At that moment, even though he was trying to decide, he realized that he physically could not have followed through with his plan. He was too afraid of how other people would look at him and of what They thought of him.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien calls himself a coward because he decided to fight in a war that he was against. He decides to go off to war to avoid the shame and criticism he would receive from staying home. If I were in his shoes, I would also label myself as a coward for going against my beliefs. He was in a lose-lose situation. He could either fight in a war he didn't believe in and take part in the killing of innocent people, or he could stay home and be a coward. I believe he hasn't told this story before because of some of the same reasons he chose not to run away to Canada. He was embarrassed and he knew he would receive criticism for wanting to flea. I think by telling the story now, it lifted a huge weight of guilt off of his shoulders.
ReplyDeleteO'Brien calls himself a coward because he gives into pressure. Although O'Brien is strongly against war, and it would have been brave of him to stand up for his own beliefs, he goes to war anyways. He is cowardly by going to war just to avoid the shame that would follow him fleeing. Overall he is a coward for not standing up for his beliefs.
ReplyDeleteThe narrator means that even though he was a coward he went to war anyways because it was his duty and obligation even though he resented the war and the reasons it was being fought. He was too afraid to run to Canada because of the humiliation involved and he would never be able to return but he was also afraid of dying in Vietnam. He never told the story about his stay with Elroy because he was ashamed that he even tried to run at all and he finally told it because he wanted the reader to know how nervous and scary being drafted for the war actually was. Elroy actually helped O’Brien come to the realization that he should not run from his responsibilities. Elroy shows O’Brien his options when he takes him out to the shores of Canada and makes him realize that he cannot run. The embarrassment of running away from his duties make him realize that he must go to war even though he did not have the heart for it.
ReplyDeleteTheh narrator means that he went too war and did what others wanted him to do, instead of doing what he wanted to do and being brave enough to make his own decision. O'Brien had never told that story before because it was an embarassing thing that he did, and made him seem like a coward. I think that Elroy helped O'Brien by not being judgemental or voicing his opinion, and letting O'Brien have his space to make his decision. O'Brien chose to go to warr because he did not want to dissapoint his family, and he did not want to be talked about or judged.
ReplyDeleteAt the end of On the Rainy River, O’Brien is trying to tell us that he was a coward for not running away to Canada. He had the chance to run away and not go to the war, but he decided instead to give into his family, friends, and hometown. He couldn’t handle the exile from Minnesota and the ridicule from his parents if he had crossed the border. I agree with this making him a coward, but he would’ve been a coward if he had decided or not decided to go to Canada.
ReplyDeleteWhen the narrator says that he is a coward for deciding to go to war, he means that he was a coward for not listening to his own decision to flee and letting pressure from his family and hometown make the decision for him. O'Brien has never told this story before because he thought the outcome would lose him lots of respect; however, upon writing this book, I think he realized that he wouldn't lose the amount of respect that he had thought he would. I believe shame played the largest role in the outcome of O'Brien's decision. In the novel, he hints that he would not be able to forgive himself for leaving his hometown and family behind and ruining his reputation. If I were in O'Brien's shoes, I think I would have made the same decision, do to everything that I would have to leave behind. However, I would be unsure if it would be the right decision.
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