So, you've probably heard of the idea of self-fulfilling prophesy that we become who we think we are, for better or for worse. This question of identity-of understanding and defining who you are-is yet another gigantic life question that shows up in Angelou's & Hurston's novels and in life. One major issue that surrounds questions of identity is who defines it? Do I get to decide who I am in life or do others decide that for me in various ways? This seems like the most obvious question in the universe. Of course, everyone should get to decide their own identities! But, when we look into the hallways of the high school, into the conference rooms of the business world, around the family dinner table, is this always the case? Do we have friends, family members, and co-workers that influence the way we think or feel about ourselves? Are they, in some ways, helping to shape our identities, in negative and positive ways? Or, do they provide feedback, and it's up to us to accept or reject it into our self concepts/identities like a really good peer edit in writing workshop?
As far as Janie and/or Maya are concerned, how does each define herself in the beginning of the novel? Are there points when she lets others define her? What are the consequences of this? How does this change as the novel progresses? What realizations does she make?
In the beginning of the novel Janie defines herself as a young girl who is changing into a woman. Janie wants to find love before she gets married but she feels that if she can't a marriage is what will cause her to find love. There is one point when Janie is defined by others and that would be her second husband Jody Starks, he says that Janie shall be a higher class woman and he won't allow her to participate in business that is beneath her stature. A consequence of Jody's treatment is that Janie feels like she can't ever truly fit in Eatonville's society. Later on when Jody passes and Janie meets Tea Cake she decides to leave Eatonville and start a new life because there is nothing there holding her back. As Janie does this she realizes that she should define herself as who she is and from doing so she discovers that she is happier when she does what she wants and not what others what for her.
ReplyDeleteJanie in Their Eyes Were Watching God struggles with her identity alot. In the beginning, Janie had the idea put into her head by her grandmother that she had to be at a higher class level than everyone else. Janie's grandma wanted her to marry young, and to someone who had just as much class as she did. So when she kissed Johnny Taylor and her grandma saw it, she was appalled. She then forced her thought process and pushed her into a marriage with Logan Killicks at a very young age. Then a little time went by and she decided she would have a better life with Joe Starks, so she ran off with him to get married. As she progressed in her life, she realized that she wasn't happy being who everyone wanted her to be. Joe would make her wear head rags so that her hair was hidden and she couldn't go anywhere but the store and home. When she wasn't working, she was required to "sit there with her hands folded," as Janie put it. Now that she met Tea Cake, and Joe Starks has died, she is finally allowed to make her own choices. She resents her grandmother for not letting her be herself. She realizes that she wasted almost 40 years of her life being someone that she didn't want to be. Now she doesn't care what people say about her. Everyone had expectations that she had to wear black and mourn and grieve when Joe died, but she didn't. She wore blue, because thats what Tea Cake is fond of. Of course, the people aren't satisfied with that. The whole town is talking of her, saying that she didn't grieve long enough or mourn long enough, but she states "I'm not grieving, so why do I have to mourn?". She realizes that now she can finally be herself and go to games and Orlando and not care what people think of her, as long as she is satisfied with her own life. Her happiness is all that matters.
ReplyDeleteTowards the beginning of the novel, Maya views herself extremely negatively, and part of that is because of what she thinks others think about her and because of general stereotypes of the era. She compares herself a lot to Bailey, with his darker, rich skin compared to her not so smooth skin, and his smooth hair compared to her kinky thick curls. She also understands that white people were looked at as the top dogs of society, and that no matter what, she must respect them. Because of these two comparisons, it destroys her confidence and leaves her confused. With a culture that praised the beauty of whites, and growing up feeling unloved, Maya probably wondered if she would ever find a place in her life where she accepted her flaws and grew to love herself. During her pregnancy, Maya recognized that a life-changing and beautiful thing was taking place inside of her body, Her baby gave her a sense of meaning and a place in the world. She had provided life to a miracle, something that was all hers, created by her and God, and if the pair could make something that great, then she might not be so bad after all, right? It also gave her a sense of hope and a will to think better of herself and strive for something great for her child.
ReplyDeleteDuring the story Maya tells she immediately begins comparing herself to her brother Bailey. She thinks that Bailey is more attractive because of his build, skin, and hair style. Therefore, Maya does not see her self living up to Bailey. However, though most whitefolks see themselves above the Blacks, Maya thinks that whitefolks could not compare to a Black and sees herself above them. Within the last five chapters Maya is recalling her teenage years and brutally mocks her height, weight, and over all appearance. I believe this is a result of her comparing herself to her mother whom she thinks to be the most beautiful woman alive. It is not until Maya becomes pregnant that she begins to be more comfortable with herself and embraces the miracle that she is enduring. Even after her child's birth Maya is afraid to care for her son because she believes she will hurt him, until her son sleeps under her arm in her bed and she finds more purpose in her life and believes in herself.
ReplyDeleteWhy define ourselves at all? Why do we as humans insist on being defined as one thing or many? Why do we have definitions at all? Some words have ugly definitions, while others have simply beautiful ones. As a child I always wondered why people felt the need to be known to others as something. I always considered myself a typical tomboy who lived among her three brothers and parents peacefully, but as I got older I started to notice why that need to define was so important. Definitions mean a clear thought, and an easier shot at acceptance among others. Maya had to have known this as well as time went on with her, or else this book wouldn't have brought about this question: Do we define ourselves, or do others do it for us? Maya's insecurities about her looks manifested into her defining herself as a misfit little black girl, which might have been true based on personal opinions. Her insecurities also made her compare herself to other women and girls around her. For some reasons people just need definitions to feel like they belong, but others use definitions to push people around.
ReplyDeletePreach it. I completely agree with you there is no reason for people to have definitions. But sadly we live in a world where we put a definition on everything. What physical appearance a person has, should have no right to define how much worth a person has. Anything we do or have done is all written down and it's like this tab that we can't pay even if we have the money too, even if we have changed. There's no escaping this tab of everything we have done and we let that tab define us. When in reality it's not about the past it's about the now, the truth, it's about who we truly are at heart. People may give us definitions, we may make decisions that people won't forget, but that's not what defines us. We at any time should be able to erase the mistakes of our past definition and change it. Maya for a while lets someone else's actions define her. She feels as if people will view her as unclean or dirty after what Mr. Freeman did to her. She slowly learns that she doesn't have to be defined by that anymore. When she has her baby I think she finally figures out her true definition.
DeleteIn the first few pages of "Their Eyes Were Watching God", Janie is identified as a woman who ran off with young men that she was "too old for". This information is gathered from when Mrs. Sumpkins, Lulu Moss, and Pheoby Watson were all talking about her as she walked by. As we actually find out Janie's story we learn that in the beginning of her life her grandmother told her who she was going to be. She wanted her to marry early and be of a higher class than everybody else. Throughout her marriage with Logan, the reader can see that Janie is defined more as quiet and lets Logan push her around and make her do work all of the time. In her marriage with Joe, Janie is similar in the way that she lets Joe push her into working the store and at one point even slaps her, yet Janie does nothing about it. As Joe is dying Janie begins voicing her opinion and breaking free of the identity she once had by going into the room where Joe was even though he had told her not to. Lastly, in her marriage with Tea Cake she is finally able to be herself. She starts to play games like Checkers, wears her hair down, and even dresses in overalls. At this point Janie realizes that only she can define her and that she is done being someone she is not.
ReplyDeleteEveryone should be able to define themselves and with self confidence that is very possible, but sometimes that is not always the case. Sometimes its human nature to follow the leader whether that be family, friends, celebrities, etc. but following someone else’s influence isn’t always the right decision. Janie had that same decision to make when her grandmother wanted her to marry Logan. Janie could have said no and gone against her grandmother’s wishes. Janie could have gone out into world to make a name for herself and find real love. Instead, Janie married a man she didn’t love and continued to let others define her, until she met Tea Cake. Then everything changed for her and she became her own person without having to worry about what others thought about her.
ReplyDeleteI noticed in the beginning of the novel Maya let her grandma (Momma) define her so she was raised religiously and behaved. But later on as more things happen to Maya, like how her father shows up one day and she is moved states away to St. Louis with her mom, things start to shape Maya and she isn't defining herself. Her environment defined her. Maya did show individuality when she wrote poems and expressed her feelings after being taught to not speak her mind and keep quiet. People are shaped by both their individual expressions and the world around them.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jenna. In the beginning of the novel, many of Mayas thoughts and actions were deeply influenced from her grandmothers belief. Her identity as she knew it was created from her grandmothers belief system. Actions that she did (or didn't do) based on her peers and her family were based on her religion. Later on in the novel, I believe that she started to create an identity for herself through her own choices that were not highly influenced from others. She created herself as the "mute, shy girl" when she decided to not talk to others so they do not end up hurt. She started to identify herself as a reader and then later as an author and poet. I believe that identity is a ever changing concept, and that it can be molded by your peers, financial situation, opinions and other factors.
DeleteFrom an early age Janie let others define who she was. Her grandmother was the first person to tell her who she was and Janie let her. Her grandma raised her to be higher up than other African Americans and told her that she was. Because of this Janie was not given the option to find love instead she had to marry a man that fit her grandmothers standards of who she thought was good enough. Then in her marriage to Joe, Janie let what Joe told her define her. He told her that she was higher than all the other townspeople and she let him. This only led to her unhappiness because she wasn't allowed to "lower" herself and do what the townspeople did. Up until she meets Tea Cake, Janie's self is defined by others but when she goes away with Tea Cake she defines herself. She does what she wants and becomes who she wants. When she finally does what she wants to do she finds true happiness and truly knows who she really is.
ReplyDeleteA person's identity based off of others' perspectives of them is called one's looking glass self, this social psychological concept was created by Charles Cooley. Janie creates her identity using her looking glass self for a majority of her life, even at an early age her grandmother's perspective creates an altered identity of her self. Janie's looking glass self corrupts her views on life and leads her into a suffocating marriage. As the novel progresses Janie slowly begins to create a new identity for herself using her own views.
ReplyDeleteIn Angelou's novel, Maya -or Marguerite at the time- allows herself to be heavily defined by others ;whether it be society's bias or the actions of another, Marguerite's perception of herself alters considerably. In the beginning of the novel she sees herself as someone who was abandoned, particularly by her mother and father, which begins her on the road of being easily deceived. An important example of a change in self-image is after she is raped and assaulted by Mr. Henderson, and she begins to feel dirty and worthless, an unfortunately common feeling among rape victims. Not long after, her self-perception is battered again -in a way- by Mr. Henderson, when he is found dead and she blames herself, believing that her lie -told due to shame- had caused his death. Marguerite doesn't completely let go of these ideas of herself, but she manages to push them to the back of her mind and forget them in some ways.
ReplyDeletePeople try to identify a person, but at the end of the day it depends on the individual themselves. In the beginning of the novel Janie is very independent, but when she marries Logan she feels oppressed. So when she meets Joe Starks she feels the need to run away so she can be herself again. While she is married to Joe her identity is lost in the shadows and is just known as the mayor's wife. Janie stays with Joe only because she has no other option and does not know what else to do. After Joe's death she meets Tea Cake and feels a spark again. Although, she realizes that she cannot be a happy and independent individual if she allows someone to take her identity away.
ReplyDeleteI think that we let others define us too much because we are afraid of not fitting in or being the odd one out. Janie is independent and strong in the beginning, but her grandmother wants Janie to marry young and to someone of the same class. She can never really be herself when she is married. For example when she was married to joe she had to work in the shop and keep her hair up so nobody would see it. If we keep letting other people run our lives we won't get to live life the way we were meant to. People are so afraid to not fit in but why would you want to be the same as everyone else, why not be special?
ReplyDeleteIdentity is really a perspective driven by actions. You can make the actions to change your identity (literally or not), but ultimately, it is up to people surrounding you to decide who you really are. If a man (let's say his name is Tom) who looked like a factory worker suddenly declared himself an astronaut, who would believe him? Probably only himself, as he has no basis for that claim, and his appearance betrays his occupation. However, assuming Tom were to produce proof that he was in space, people would start to identify him as a retired astronaut, rather than a factory worker. Rewind 25 years to this man's youth, and people perhaps would have called this young boy crazy, said being an astronaut is nigh-impossible. Of course, perhaps this may sting Tom's feelings and hopes, but ultimately, it was up to him to continue his journey to what he wanted to be. People will hurt, people will help. It's just how humans are.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to Janie in "Their Eyes Were Watching God", the novel starts in a prelude that begins the conversation with Phoeby (and thus the story itself), literally starting with a group of people who "sat in judgement," continuously and mercilessly asking questions between themselves inconsiderate, insulting, and immoral questions. Clearly, these people chose Janie's identity as a fool. When the story begins, it is revealed that Janie's grandmother has decided a husband for her - the love life of a person is a large part of who they are. From this, the story unfolds as it does as a result of a forced marriage; she runs away to a man full of ambition, Joe Starks, but lets him turn Janie into a mere trophy until his death, culminating in her marriage with Tea Cake, giving Janie the greatest chance at becoming an actual person with an actual identity.
In the beginning of the book "Their Eyes Were Watching God," Janie's life is guided by her grandmother. Almost everything Janie has done has somehow been persuaded by her grandmother, such as Janie's first marriage. Janie's first marriage was wanted by Janie's grandmother because before her grandmother died her grandmother wanted to see Janie with someone. After her grandmother's death, Janie soon realized that she was able to think for herself and not let other people define her, which began Janie's character development. A consequence of this was that Janie started to believe that since she was in charge of her own life that anything was possible and life would be perfect. It is still possible that Janie's life would have some bumps in the road even though she's able to run her own life (marrying Joe was a huge pothole on her road of life, just saying) and Janie should've been a little more thoughtful and cautious about her decisions.
ReplyDeleteOnly we can define our identity, but our friends and family are what gives us a hint of who we are. The thing we can't let though is others defining us in a bad way. For we chose who we are and we should be ourselves and our identity can't be changed based on what others want or what our pop culture wants. If we have good friends and family they will like us just the way we are and not want anything to change and that's the good influence about identity. Janie in the begging of the novel is defined by other people, and she doesn't fine happiness. As she becomes more and more defined by other people she begins to look like every other wife and she doesn't like that. She wants better then that. So she realizes to leave her husband and soon finds Tea Cake who lets her define herself.
ReplyDeleteMaya, like us all, is defined in life by the things that surround her. Whether she realizes it or not, her values are guided by her family, society, and her own experiences. While everyone likes to believe that they alone define themselves, this is just simply not true, especially at Maya’s young age. For instance, no one is born with a racial prejudice; that is something that was instilled in Maya during her early years. This is shown in how Maya reacts to the powhitetrash kids that come to mock Momma and her store in the beginning of the novel. The anger and hatred she feels for their disrespect towards Momma is multiplied tenfold just because they’re white. This part of Maya is something that was defined by society, for all of society believed in segregation and the racial prejudices held at that time. Maya is also defined by her family, and this is shown through her actions and the values she holds. She is kind to Uncle Willie when others are not, she attends church, and she values her brother Bailey above all else. From her younger years as a child and to her older years as she progresses towards being a woman, she treasures Bailey and his thoughts, actions, and ideals. Maya is no different than all of us today, we are all growing, learning, and discovering who we are while battling societal and familial pressures that will in the end help to define who we are.
ReplyDeleteIdentity is defined in the Webster's Dictionary as "the distinguishing character or personality of an individual", which rivals Eric's believe that identity can be based off of what a person looks like. Of course, physical characteristics exist and can help aid in what your identity is. But I personally believe people have multiple identities. There is what society sees you as and what you see yourself as. The most important of these two will always be what you see yourself as, because you will always be the only one you have for your whole life. You can adjust your characteristics to fit what you want your identity to be, and you never have to stay as one thing. People adapt and change, and it is hard for people to accept that, but their opinion does not define you.
ReplyDeleteIn 'I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings', Maya proves that the human race lives to define themselves and others to prove their worth. She immediately compares herself to her brother, saying she will never live up to be like him or have the same worth he has. Even at the end of the novel, she is afraid she is not fit to be a parent and that her self worth is lesser because of her age. She comes to peace with herself at the end, when instinct kicks in and she proves to herself that she is worth something and will not be defined by others.
At the beginning of the novel Maya sees herself as ugly and unattractive. She takes note and listens to other people talk about her weight and the color of her skin, lowering her self esteem even more. She often dreams about and wishes to be a skinny white girl with blonde hair. When she meets her mother it doesn't help either because she says her mother is beautiful like her brother. Though her uncle tries to fix these feelings by telling her that she's smart and shouldn't worry about how she looks. In the final chapters of the book Maya becomes proud of who she is and what she has become and embraces her inner and outer beauty.
ReplyDeleteI believe in Hurston's novel she shows that you can be shaped and molded by people's actions and words by ultimately you decide whether to listen to what they say or do as they do. She shows Janie doing almost everything Joe says until the day he dies, where she finally lets out her hair and becomes her own person. She doesn't do as everyone says, she doesn't grieve like everyone thinks she should be and doesn't wear what they believe she should be wearing. Even when Janie was with Tea Cake she still made her own decisions and never did a single thing she didn't want to do.
ReplyDeleteIn the book "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" I believe the only person who defined her was herself. Maya saw herslf as ugly and never capable of living up to her big brother Bailey. Despite her Uncle's comments on how intelligance can be better than beauty Maya still looks down upon herself. Everyone thinks that the community in which Maya grew up in defined her, but in my opinion the community only said those things. Maya was the one who allowed those words to define her.
ReplyDeleteJanie seems to be highly influenced by her grandmother. For example, her first marriage. Her Grandmother wanted to see her married to someone before she died. She basically forced her to marry Logan. Later along the way she had to learn to be who she wanted to be not who everyone else wanted her to be. After the Grandmother passed away Janie had come to realize that she had to make decisions on her own. I think we are often influenced by others in our everyday lives. For example how we dress and things along those lines. As the novel progressed Janie began to become who she wanted and realized that everything didn't always turn out perfectly.
ReplyDeleteIn "Their Eyes Were Watching God" Janie's life is guided by her grandmother, mostly because her parents were gone. Janie was forced to marry Logan, and her grandmother didn't care if she loved him or not. It was all about having good money and land to her grandma, but Janie wanted love. She finally began to see that she didn't have to be what her grandmother wanted her to be. She could make the decisions she wanted to make on her own. Janie wanted to create her own life and make it the way she wanted it to be, as long as she was happy. But when her grandmother held Janie back from making major decisions, it caused the desicions made by Janie to be poor. Like when she married a man she knew for only a couple days. A decision can be changed by peoples words, but you can decide wether to listen or do what you really want.
ReplyDeletePeople define who they are in life. What society thinks of them and how they are treated does affect them but only if that person lets it. Throughout the book, "I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings", Maya defines herself based on the mean comments from other people. She feels the way she is because she lets the comments of other people define her. She always looks down on herself and thinks she will never be as good as her older brother. Then after the Mr. Freeman incident, she feels like she is a bad person for lying and for what happened. After a long period of not speaking she starts to put that behind her. She starts working hard at school and even becomes second in her class. Her family is very proud and her self-esteem starts to rise. Soon she is sticking up for herself and thinking for herself. She knows what society thinks of her and chooses not to let it define her. She truly defines herself in the end when she becomes the first colored girl to work on a streetcar.
ReplyDeletePeople define who they are in life. What society thinks of them and how they are treated does affect them but only if that person lets it. Throughout the book, "I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings", Maya defines herself based on the mean comments from other people. She feels the way she is because she lets the comments of other people define her. She always looks down on herself and thinks she will never be as good as her older brother. Then after the Mr. Freeman incident, she feels like she is a bad person for lying and for what happened. After a long period of not speaking she starts to put that behind her. She starts working hard at school and even becomes second in her class. Her family is very proud and her self-esteem starts to rise. Soon she is sticking up for herself and thinking for herself. She knows what society thinks of her and chooses not to let it define her. She truly defines herself in the end when she becomes the first colored girl to work on a streetcar.
ReplyDeleteIn the real world, people's emotional strength determine whether or not they define themselves. However, in most cases, people let society define them because it is easier but occasionally there are strong people who define themselves and do not let traditional societal values define them. In the book Their Eyes Were Watching God, Janie allows others to define her in the beginning of the book by allowing her grandmother to arrange her marriage, allowing Jody to force her to wear her hair up, and so on. But, when Tea Cake comes along he teaches her to define herself and not judging herself based on what anyone else thinks of her.
ReplyDeleteIn the real world, people's emotional strength determine whether or not they define themselves. However, in most cases, people let society define them because it is easier but occasionally there are strong people who define themselves and do not let traditional societal values define them. In the book Their Eyes Were Watching God, Janie allows others to define her in the beginning of the book by allowing her grandmother to arrange her marriage, allowing Jody to force her to wear her hair up, and so on. But, when Tea Cake comes along he teaches her to define herself and not judging herself based on what anyone else thinks of her.
ReplyDeleteIn the world I believe that you can choose what you want to be, but I also believe that people are very easy influenced by other people that surround them. Concerning if this is a good or bad thing, I believe that it depends on what the person is influencing you to change for the better or worst. In the beginning of the novel we get the sense that Maya isn’t too fond of herself. She doesn’t like her looks, believed her words could kill someone, and doesn’t really respect herself. I believe with many other people that the moment she had the baby she started respecting herself and thought of herself as a mother of another breathing human being.
ReplyDeleteOf course we should have the freedom to choose our own identities, but sometimes, the prejudices and stereotypes society can put on people puts some in a mentality where their identities are already predetermined. This is truly scary, as the image people have of us can affect the way we see ourselves, and if that image of ourselves is inferior, it can take away our complete willpower to ever change ourselves and our situation. This is clearly illustrated in Janie's situation many times throughout Janie's marriage with Jody, as Jody looks at women as rather lazy, inferior beings, and this affects his image of Janie, as well as Janie's own image of herself! Now, that's not to say that any image society thrusts upon us changes us directly (In fact, it seems to be less of a problem with people today then it was in the 20th century), but people have to be careful how others can affect their own identities. These are my thoughts on how other people could possibly affect our identity.
ReplyDeleteIn Their Eyes Were Watching God, Janie begins by wanting to write her own story. She wants to be in control of her own life.
ReplyDeleteHowever, her grandmother straightens her out pretty quickly, and forces her to marry Logan. In an attempt to improve her life, Janie leaves Logan for Joe Starks, who promised to let her love how she pleased. It isn't long before Joe forces her into another role she doesn't want to fill. In her attempts to chose her own story, Janie keeps making choices that end up making her situation worse.
When she marries Tea Cake, Janie finally has found the life she has been looking for, but their our still flaws. I think that, while we do have the ability to choose our own identity, we can never have total control over it. All of our stories are interwoven, so a choice that one person makes affects the identities of those around them.